The bolt partially strips a round but doesnt chamber it and just drags over the top of it. Not trying to be a dick, but can you summarize in one sentence what the rifle is NOT doing? Sounds like the pmag is riding a little high and rubbing the bottom of the carrier a bit. Note the different rear opening. It did. The BC looks the same so this is a non issue. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the bolt catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. I think I may just shoot it a few mags and see what happens.. I realized you can fix this by filing or dremeling off some material on the rear of the mag body, or by using whatever generation of magazine they implemented to fix this, or you could just arrive at my next point and save four or five dollars more by purchasing a GI mag. Paste as plain text instead, They are not as likely to happen with premium ammo yet the chance is still there. New firearms are designed around common Colt-pattern mags, and Magpul has to keep accommodating new designs with generational changes, or new offerings altogether, like they did with the EMAG. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more . AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. Here's a pic of the wear on the bolt catch caused by this: Here's the OEM mag (left) compared to the PMAG (right). This will severly damage your bolt group over time. The tension on the bolt catch by the BCG helps keep the bolt catch firmly engaged over the rear of the follower of the Pmag. Just checked all of mine, I'm not sure how HC's ended up with a witness mark where it's at. https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/, Bolt catch is from a TacFire .308 AR Lower Parts Kit (not for an AR-15). You are using an out of date browser. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. I sent an email toDaytona Tactical support telling that themagazine catch hole is0.049 too low compared to others I've seen drawings of and am awaiting their response. 4: Clearance to bolt catch is adequate when bolt is fully retracted, Fig. Have the power still to banish your defenders; till at length your ignorance, which finds not till it feels, making but reservation of yourselves, still your own foes, deliver you, as most abated captives to some nation that won you without blows!". The bolt catch on the AR platform is directly in the center of the mag, so the shape of the notch doesn't matter on the AR, but on the SCAR, the bolt catch is offset slightly to the left. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Another P-Mag bolt catch issue. You'll need to clay the upper, just like you'd do if you were checking an engine for piston-to-valve clearance. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch = 0.696, Fig. I too have seen issues with PMag followers. Fig. Not a back-breaking amount, mind you, but not insignificant. Crap! By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. We have heard reports these malfunctions often happened with Wolf, Tula, and Brown Bear ammo. I'd delete it if I could. PMAG Problems Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated What changed? His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. I actually just noticed this issue on my Colt 6920 with Magpul M2 PMAGS. When someone mentions must-have magazines for the AR platform, many shooters immediately think of Pmag Vs Hexmag. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. I don't and I didn't . honest. The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but Id first like to solve the feed problem. JWardJune 15, 2020 in Building a .308AR. So far so good. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Your link has been automatically embedded. So, for people who only have AR-15s and only shoot AR-15s, its easy to get tunnel vision and just assume that PMAGs are the greatest, and the end-all, be-all answer for all shooters, while overlooking the needs of other people. Try manually locking it back a dozen or so times then checking for any wear streaks on the top of the magazine feed lips. What measurements do you have on your lower? The Fix: 1.) The main concern is the failure to feed. i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. I have a substantial cache of PMAGs, I already performed the PMAG mod by cutting the back of the mag so the bolt catch wont activate. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. 8: Bolt Carrier to upper receiver = 0.283. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole = 0.692. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. Loading magazines at home means more shooting time at the range. Like CPT stated, it's supposed to raise it some and technically it can only go so far before the BCR bottoms out. Also if you rest your gun on the mag when you shoot (by the way don't do this) it will shove most mags including FN factory ones. I dont readily know of a solution to the feed problem but I dont want to alter magazines to compensate for a receiver flaw. All it takes is one out of spec cartridge that the extractor fails to grab leaving the cartridge behind in the chamber, going back then forward and pushing a fresh round against the cartridge left behind and you have the dreaded double feed where everything locks up. This will allow for easy removal of the magazine . It's a precaution against folks who like to cause trouble immediately after joining up. It isnt that they are bad (in fact they feed and run very well in certain firearms) but in my years of shooting I have simply found that other products may better suit a myriad of shooters. These same parts are available from other vendors. JavaScript is disabled. This can cause partial engagement of the bolt catch and result in unintentional contact between the bolt carrier group and the bolt catch during normal weapon operation. Depth of the hole? Once bolt was locked to the rear or closed, it would engage the catch and seat properly on the "bad" mag. Close the receivers back together and re-engage the rear takedown pin. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). I find it interesting that in the "Bolt Catch Issues" section of the article, they mention that if the gun's bolt-catch fails to operate properly, instead of simply checking other mags, their first-line troubleshooting is to check the critical dimensions . What the problem is: The lip on the un-fixed P-mag pushes the mag release/Bolt catch bar up just enough to catch the bolt group, but not enough to stop it. If your upper and lower receivers are MIL-SPEC the ARMagLock will work. Pics to follow. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but I'd first like to solve the feed problem. None of the 3 15/30 i have worked. If you experience this issue, make sure your lower is within spec, and your bolt catch is installed correctly and not worn down. Note here that this PMAG will not insert into this civilian version of the HK-416, due to the odd body geometry. Can anyone offer insight to the cause of or solution to these problems? Could i just have faulty mags? We are all guilty of doing this, in one way or another. The issue is with bolt lock back. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. I liken this to a person who lives in an urban area with an office job, assuming that nobody needs anything more than a Toyota Camry, while overlooking the fact that some people need things such as towing capacity, off-road capability, or more seats for a larger family. I don't know if this is an indication of another problem being that the bolt catch is too far left. I read your post twice, I still don't see the malfunction. Thanks for the reply. The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever . 80% ar-10 bolt jammed m5e1 pmag stuck 1 2 Next Mk3Mstr6Mchne0 Atlington, Washington Messages 12 Reactions 28 Apr 30, 2019 #1 this is kind of hard to explain, I am also pretty experienced with the AR platform, my M5e1 upper is assembled on an 80% lower. I thought it was a nonissue with the gen 3. If so, it might be worth trying another batch of pmags in case it's just a mold variation. Also, PMAGs had trouble fitting in firearms like the British SA-80/L-85, and will not fit in the FN FS-2000 without the user modifying the weapon by removing a component that serves to seal the weapon from dirt and debris. Always use the firearm and AR MAGLOCK products as designed, engineered and intended for use. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. When I release the bolt, the back end of the follower is sticking up, and the bolt will strip the follower right out of the top of the magazine if I let it go. If you could post a pic of that comparison, it would be helpful. Special thanks to Ventura Munitions for helping us out with the cost of ammo, and a special thank you to you all for watching. In total, I (and friends) fired about 1,200 rounds in this review, 1,000 PMC .223 55-grain, about 200 reloads (a mix of 77- and 75-grain), and 20 rounds of Tula steel case at the very end. Professional. I'm pretty sure it's in the 80% Section. Continue until the upper lip is flush with the upper receiver when closed. A forum community dedicated to FN Herstal firearm owners and enthusiasts. Also, since the follower rides too high the pmags I used made a dent in the follower from the bolt. A: Some states require the compliance solution be made permanent. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. I inspected my mags after I received my order and that's when I saw the bolt catch was up and went wtf face palm*. Take off your upper receiver, throw in that empty mag. Personally I wouldn't shoot it until you've got this issue corrected. I'm looking forward to hearing some comments on this. All Rights Reserved. Come join the discussion about optics, modifications, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! While the weight difference may not seem like much to a civilian shooter who packs up his shiny, clean competition rifle into his Pelican case and totes it to and from the range in the family truckster, you hear about things like guys cutting toothbrushes in half to save weight in the military. Problems I have run into in the past include, firstly, that they wont drop free in a lot of firearms. With the mag catch removed, a mag can be inserted so far into the mag well that the follower moves upward beyond the point where it can lift the bolt catch. Mar 3, 2022. #5. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! Before that would be a solution - you need tocheck how much further into the upper receiver that your magazine will go. I've heard of Issues with Pmags and ARs due to Pmags having more material on the rear of the mag, creating more distance between the follower and the Bolt Catch tooth which isn't as far with USGI mags, and wondering if it is that, plus tolerance stacking being my Catch has so much wiggle room on the Standard M&P. Mag still wobbles the same and the error still remains. Your previous content has been restored. This is. If so, it would cause both symptoms. We STRONGLY encourage all users to always use the new PMAG magazine or some other 10 round magazine solution with a removable floor plate. Hey, everyone. It was initially 0.323 deep. The P-mags always functioned. Talyn said: Pmag VS Hexmag. Does your caliper also have a depth gauge that can get the internal depth to the mag catch as in figure 10? The table shows the measurements of several magazines and the left or right cartridge. I dont know what the limit is before you earn the edit privileges. By For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I wish I could edit the original post to correct this. Next up is damage to the SCAR. Suggestions? NEW PRICING: All products have been reduced 10%! The bolt passes over the cartridge instead of stripping it from the magazine. We have also seen similar malfunctions in a sandy environment using military spec ammo with a dirty, gummed up weapon. Fig. I picked up a SCAR 16s last week and put 50 rounds through it with no problems at all (using the FN mag). AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. The cause could be one of the following: Bolt catch assembly is too far away from the back of magazine well Finger on bolt catch is too short Slight slop (looseness) on magazine, or magazine faceplate AR platform is new to me, and I hope I don't upset anyone here because I am a noob when it comes to ARs. Posted July 20, 2016 in Shooting Accessories, TFBTV by Alex C. with 210 CommentsTags: I'm the guy at the store with 27 coupons, Magpul, pmag, PMAGs, Tightwad. Fig. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. They are reliable, well-constructed, and produced by a company that has a great reputation. The problem is pretty simple, the magazine's follower is failing to raise the bolt catch. I like the idea that I can accomplish a speedy reload by pressing a button and kicking a magazine out. My fix was with Gen2 pmags. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. The bolt catch rides up but not on the black polymer part of the mag, but the follower. It's a whole lot of details. View attachment 25288. *, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to To my knowledge, no PMAGs will work in the FS-2000 to this day without modification. Open the receivers to the maximum limit of the pin capabilities. Additionally, unsafe and unintended methods of operation of the FIREARM may also cause non-compliance. P-Mag Follower and Bolt Catch Engagement *Issue Resolved! Is it the length of the plunger? Could use some advice, being this is a problem on MANY ARs, not just the M&P's. The bolt can still be removed by grinding but will no longer be usable. Definitely try another couple magazines, including one from another manufacturer. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The problem is interference between the bottom edge of the rear wall of the mag well and a ridge running horizontally across the PMag spine. I am having no problems with Gen 2 or Gen 3 Pmags in a variety of lowers using mil-spec mag and bolt catches, which are also from a variety of suppliers. It is tight getting the depth gauge to the lower so the caliper may need to be slightly rotated but not in a direction that will affect the height measurement. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isnt present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. Privacy Policy. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. Thanks shooterrex. Replace the empty magazine with a new 10 round magazine and let it click into place. Would anyone be willing to measure and report their heights from the top of the lower to the top of a cartridge case head? Well, there are several reasons for this. My external measurement as shown in figure 11 is the top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole which is 0.692. (not my lower, but my exact problem!) Really appreciate your thorough pictures provided, that's an excellent way to provide data on your issues. Very carefully and pay attention to how the bolt catch actually works, if you did you should figured it out almost immediately. Checking mine now! Please refer to our installation videos and the instructions on your packaging. The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. Ok, so I have searched the hide and my googlefu is actin a fool like my pmags You must log in or register to reply here. I have about 15 Amend 2 mags, but that's out of 20 because 5 of them wouldn't drop out of the mag well by themselves. Pasted as rich text. How is it though that my. NEVER attempt to cycle the bolt carrier group (manually or otherwise) or fire a round with the action open (receivers separated), as this may cause serious injury or death AND potentially make your rifle non-compliant with laws and regulations! The metal Mag that came with my Stag worked fine however. My Colt LE6920 bolt is not locking back when the last round is fired nor when I insert an empty magpul pmag magazine. Also check out this great, descriptive video as the Gen3 7.62x51 PMag followers have a slightly different contour which can catch the feed lips, and not rise high enough to engage the bolt catch properly on DPMS Gen 2 style bolt catch levers. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. NEVER use this product outside the standard method of operation as it will cause the rifle to no longer be in compliance and you risk arrest. But with firearms, there really is seldom a one size fits all option for, well, anything. A friend with a lower that started at 80% also had the same problem as I do and fixed his by shifting his mag catch up 0.050". The Magpul PMAG is a great, well designed magazine that many people like and use in various rifles around the world, but over the years I have discovered that they are not the best option for me personally. I was curious about how other magazines behaved in the lower so I measured them to simply verify reasonable consistency. . Elite Aluminum Products although I dont know who made them. Mine seem to be fine after trimming of course. If that's what the bolt catch is suppossed to look like then my mags are a lil out of spec when inserted into the lower. You must log in or register to reply here. edit: i just got them. It's brand new so it couldn't be anything crazy like the gas block. Gonna remove the anodizing, but making omelets requires the breaking of eggs; so. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. 3: Magazine feed lips height = 0.446, Fig. What's stopping your bolt catch travel, when you have that plunger and spring in there? Correction to original post: If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). Maybe after Magpul completes their move they'll address some of their mold issues, 'til then it's best to check. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. Its Alex C. with TFBTV. The ones I used were my friends and I checked the bolt catch before I shot. Re: Magpul PMag issues. Repeat for the P-mags and note any difference. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt 'home'. Its best to identify these two common issues with your rifle, before attempting to diagnose problems with your magazines. i have my pmags and i am just noticing a problemtried it out on 3 seperate lowers all of them have the same problem: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/derek45/AR/IMGP5612.jpg, the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty. It knows when youre cheating..like Santa. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. JavaScript is disabled. Switch the Safety selector to 'Safe'. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. :??? They all functioned fine. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bolt Catch issues w/ Pmags + few questions, https://www.triggershims.com/ar_15_shims.html. Here's a photo showing the mags. That said, there is a reason that there are generations of these magazines. Operation of an AR-15 without the receivers / action fully closed may result in serious injuries or death. I just checked and my BM lower does the same. Not up on the 80% stuff myself but we have a thread with lots of different brand bolt catches and the dimensions that may help on that end, please add to it if you have something not listed there. . JavaScript is disabled. I deepened the hole to 0.480. I'd like to get measurements with lowers that did not start as an 80% because there have been reports of80% lowers having the same problem as mine. Either the hole gets deeper, or a couple coils come off the spring, or the tail on the plunger gets shortened. Magpul needs to tweak their mold a bit before they make the claims they do. I recently assembled this Noveske rifle and bought 3. I ordered 10 mags from brownells after I saw they didn't ride the bolt up. Im almost through with my build, however I have noticed that my Seekins enhanced Bolt Catch in my Anderson lower is not locking back on PMags like it does on my aluminum and steel magazines. For me I had to shave off small pieces of the mag to make the bolt catch itself latch. Cookie Notice The edit feature will become available to you with just a few more posts on the forum. UPDATE: After seeing these pictures, I checked my factory mag. Pmags have worked fine in the past. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 7: Bolt catch fully extended, plunger removed = 0.443, Fig. I personally dont see why I would spend an extra five bucks for magazines that wont drop free in all my guns, may or may not be compatible with new and upcoming guns, and my next point: wont fit in all my guns. Then collapse that spring ON the plunger, to coil bind, and measure the OAL of both (with spring in coil bind). Iiiiffffff I owned one of those evil black rifles , I might buy the Hexmag brand when they went on sale for $6.95 ea. Think it could be magazine springs? At the moment just keep posting as usual, the edit feature will become available. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. I didn't include that aspectbecause the bolt easily clears the bolt catch (figure 4) so I didn't want to throw in a red herring andconfuse the issue. Just did this, no difference. I do need to know the correct distance of the top of the mag catch to the top of the lower as in figure 10 by using a depth gauge. I had that issue with a couple Lancer mags, ended up replacing that bolt catch when it broke with a Sig 716 bolt catch and now the one Lancer mag I saved that had the issue works in that rifle. Could the magazine be too low? Yours is 0.6640" for a difference of 0.028" which isn't as much as I expected based on drawings which is 0.049". This solution will meet some states permanence requirements. I used a digital caliper depth gauge as shown in the picture. Indeed, if could be too low, and we have a HELL of a thread here on that very issue. So, I marked it and I'm gonna keep running it through to see if it happens anymore. TSiWRX. We STRONGLY encourage all users to ONLY run premium ammunition through their firearm at all times. Maybe it's raising it too much, but a locked bolt is a locked bolt. : "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.". The mag doesn't need to come up so far as to cause this condition but the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more forward in the mag body, and the end of the catch tab is not lifted upwards to active the catch. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release = 0.696, Fig. After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt home. One new winner* is announced every week! Again, kids running with scissors did this to us. For a while you only had so long to make the edit and then never again. Thanks for this HC, I'm going to inspect my Gen 3's to see if mine have the same witness marks. But if you're having this problem just take the flat of a knife blade and, holding the blade perpendicular to the magazine body, scrape a little bit of the plastic away until your bolt latch has free travel. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, I'll test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. This is one of my pistols. The mag on the left is the metal 10 round mag, the two to the right are Pmags. Also don't buy anything from Beavercreek Armory in Hillsboro, Oregon as they screwed me over with this poorly built, out of spec rifle. I dont have another LR-308 with which to compare my measurements so I dont know which dimensions are problematic. Anyone else having problems with the 15/30. I get asked a lot why, in almost all of my reviews or videos, I use good old-fashioned U.S. GI steel magazines in lieu of Magpul PMAGs, a popular alternative that most shooters these days are familiar with.
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